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 Sozin's Vision

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Yami
White Lotus Sentry
Fire Nation

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PostSubject: Sozin's Vision   Sozin's Vision Icon_minitimeMon Jul 01, 2013 1:45 pm

Was Sozin's vision justifiable? Just think about it Sozin wanted to spread the wealth of the Fire Nation to the other nations. He wanted to unified them by creating one big empire.

The concept of this idea alone is not bad. Uniting people of world and spreading prosperity. It kind of sounds like Crystal Tokyo from Sailor Moon. Sadly a war came out of the idea because Sozin took the wrong direction.

Anyone else feels the same? Or do you disagree? Was Roku right that the nations should stay separate?


Last edited by Yami on Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:10 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Sozin's Vision   Sozin's Vision Icon_minitimeMon Jul 01, 2013 5:47 pm

Sozin. No, 'e' in his name.

He had a very good idea. But the problem was he went about it the wrong way. He conquered and colonized a village in the Earth Kingdom. If he had tried talking to the other nation leaders they could have come up with something to unify the four nations.

The problem with Sozin is that he had specifically said, "In our hands is the most successful empire in history. It's time we expanded it."

He want it to be all about the Fire Nation taking over the other nations to be all under the Fire Nation empire. Roku was right, the nations had to stay separated because the four nations did not share the ideals of the Fire Nation monarch.

This is what makes Sozin's vision and Zuko's vision different. Zuko wanted to bring the four nations together as equals. Fire Nation stays Fire Nation and the other nations stay they way they are with their on politics and culture, but with the help of the other nations they could thrive together equally. Trading with other nations and getting different views helps everyone out instead of being completely separated. Look at the Water Tribes, they were hurting even before the war since they were separated. By now they seem to do well in Korra because they are doing trades with the Fire Nation and Earth Kingdom.
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Yami
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PostSubject: Re: Sozin's Vision   Sozin's Vision Icon_minitimeMon Jul 01, 2013 7:14 pm

Thanks for correcting my spelling. I fixed it!

Yes, the main problem with Sozin is that he wanted to expanded the nation itself. I forgotten that little part.
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PostSubject: Re: Sozin's Vision   Sozin's Vision Icon_minitimeTue Jul 02, 2013 1:25 pm

I feel as though he was using a nicer term for a bad scheme. It's like serial killers who kill and say they were trying to save them. To me, I think Sozin was a bit delusional and something happened to him when Roku was away. They never discussed what the event was, but I think it may have been traumatic for him.
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PostSubject: Re: Sozin's Vision   Sozin's Vision Icon_minitimeTue Jul 02, 2013 5:01 pm

I am curious to how he became about this vision of his. It would be neat have a comic series based on the events before Aang was born. I bet the creators keep all the awesome backstories from us. >.>
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PostSubject: Re: Sozin's Vision   Sozin's Vision Icon_minitimeTue Jul 02, 2013 5:55 pm

Well, here are facts we do know:

When Sozin and Roku were 16, Sozin was already worrying about his father's health. Which could mean the Fire Lord was in poor health due to an illness or really old. 12 years went by before Roku returned to the Fire Nation as a fully realized Avatar. They're 28 and Sozin is already Fire Lord. We don't know for how long though. (According to Avatar Extras: Sozin became Fire Lord, 8 years after Roku left. So, 24.*)

So, here's a theory for why he became delusional  Between 16 - 28, Sozin becomes Fire Lord, his best friend/brother is away for who knows how long (for him) until Roku comes back as a fully realized Avatar. I'm going under the assumption that Sozin doesn't have uncles or any siblings and that it's not common for there to be a Fire Lord to ascend to the throne while still being under 30.

Sozin probably only had advisors who didn't know him personally. He those same advisors could have possibly been his father's advisors. Maybe those advisors kept comparing Sozin to his father and they didn't think the Fire Nation could do well in a "boy's" hands. But, within those 12 years, he proved them wrong. The Fire Nation was flourishing  He thought he could conquer anything because he was a young Fire Lord and his country was thriving.

Roku is back and is a fully realized Avatar. The power of the Avatar and a young Fire Lord? They definitely could have ruled an empire together and no one would have been able to stop them.

*I'm not considering Avatar Extras's information into my theory because they have been proven wrong and inaccurate on some of their information, thus not making them a legit source. Especially since some of their comments contradicted what Bryan and Mike have said in interviews.
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PostSubject: Re: Sozin's Vision   Sozin's Vision Icon_minitimeTue Jul 02, 2013 6:05 pm

You always have nice theories AngetAyu! Very Happy

It's highly possible that Sozin thought he could conquer anything after seeing his nation flourishing. A lot nations in our world have done the same thing. Conquer places in the new world to spread the ideologies to lesser known nations. Then in Africa European nations would try to make the African societies 'civilized'. In their minds they thought they were doing good by "helping" people to live like their society.
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PostSubject: Re: Sozin's Vision   Sozin's Vision Icon_minitimeTue Jul 02, 2013 6:09 pm

Yami wrote:
You always have nice theories AngetAyu! Very Happy

It's highly possible that Sozin thought he could conquer anything after seeing his nation flourishing. A lot nations in our world have done the same thing. Conquer places in the new world to spread the ideologies to lesser known nations. Then in Africa European nations would try to make the African societies 'civilized'. In their minds they thought they were doing good by "helping" people to live like their society.  

 You can just call me 'Ayu'. 

Exactly. The example of Africa being colonized by the Europeans works well with what the Fire Nation was trying to do primarily with the Earth Kingdom. Even within the Earth Kingdom themselves that was happening.

Chin the Conqueror tried to take over Kyoshi's village before Kyoshi made it into an island. So it's not just Sozin who had this idea.
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PostSubject: Re: Sozin's Vision   Sozin's Vision Icon_minitimeTue Jul 02, 2013 6:14 pm

I really love how creators incorporated these ideas into the show. It's a great way to teach kids about history even if they dont know it. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Sozin's Vision   Sozin's Vision Icon_minitimeTue Jul 02, 2013 6:49 pm

Lol, yeah.

Also back to what I mentioned earlier about young Fire Lords to be uncommon. That can be used as an example with our history too if we look towards the British Royal Family... 

Basing this off of a fandom estimated timeline that was put together and can be found on Avatar Wikia [link to the timeline]*, Azulon was Fire Lord for 75 years! Azulon was 20 when he became Fire Lord. 

Then there is Zuko who became Fire Lord at 16 - 17. He was on the throne for 67 years before passing it to his daughter.

For the sake of conversation let's say "Honora" is in her late 40s - early 50s, since I don't think Zuko would have children until he's in his 20s and everything with the Fire Nation and the Harmony Restoration Movement are squared away. "Honora" breaks that trend of being a young Fire Lord if she assumed the throne in her 40s. Prince Iroh is in his 20s, but he probably won't be Fire Lord for quite a while with his mother having already been Fire Lord for 3 years.

Their age and advisors really does play a role into the minds of the Fire Lords. Zuko was different from his grandfather and great-grandfather because he had his uncle to guide him. While Sozin and Azulon had advisors that were originally their father's advisors. Like Sozin I'm assuming that Azulon does not have uncles or siblings from what was shown to us in "The Avatar and The Firelord" and "Zuko Alone". Zuko had a role model to guide him who was also someone he trusted fully for advice even though Iroh was not an official advisor. 

"Honora" being in her late 40s - early 50s, could look to her father as a role model while she was still the Crowned Princess. Since she had years to be the Crowned Princess and gradually pick up more and more responsibilities, there's no doubt in my mind that she probably was acting Fire Lord for her father for a while before he officially abdicated the throne. 

---

Not really talking about Ozai since he was Fire Lord for 5 years and was only taking care of what was left of his father and grandfather's work.

*I'm basing this off of this unofficial timeline, because the show itself is very inaccurate with Azulon's age and the number of years he was Fire Lord. If Azulon was Fire Lord for only 23 years, that means Sozin lived to be around 170-something years old. So, no, Azulon was Fire Lord for longer than 23 years.


---

Also I will never apologize for my longass replies and posts when it comes to the Fire Nation and the Royal Family. I can talk, rant, debate, theorize, etc. for hours upon hours about them. =D
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